Saturday, August 14, 2010

Criminalizing Veterinary Procedures Across the State of New York

A11684 outlawing humane bark softening will kill dogs

On August 4, 2010, Assemblymember
Kenneth Zebrowski (D-New City), introduced A11684.

The proposal to ban a veterinary care option available to dog owners in consultation with their veterinarians criminalizes humane "bark softening".

Accomplished by licensed veterinarians, the procedure is
an unusual measure occasionally used as a last resort by dog owners desperate to prevent uncontrollable, loud and frequent barking which has become an issue with their neighbors and within their communities.

A11684 subjects both dog owner and veterinarian to severe sanctions and penalties.

The American Veterinary Medicine Association policy
does not support proposals such as A11684.

For a further analysis of this unreasonable and pointless curtailment of the ability of caring dog owners to humanely and safely address an unusual and intractable behavioral issue, please refer to Dog Federation of New York member Susan Beals' analysis of the misrepresentations, weak basis in "fact" and unanticipated negative consequences of Assemblymember Zebrowski's poorly-considered proposal.

The Dog Federation of New York always encourages dog owners to be sensitive to the concerns of their neighbors and community.

When other measures have
failed, "bark softening" may be the last option for dog owners struggling to keep a beloved pet in their home, and out of over-burdened shelters which may have no choice but to kill a dog that barks too much.

13 comments:

EllenG said...

People need to be encouraged to walk their dogs - a tired dog is a good dog that doesn't bark for no reason. And, if they are unable to exercise their dogs, then they should hire a professional pet sitter/dog walker (like me). This surgery is ridiculous and just another easy fix for human laziness at the potential price of a dog's well-being. If you can't fulfill a dog's natural basic needs, then DON'T GET A DOG!

The only New York organization dedicated to protecting the rights of caring dog owners said...

Dogs need exercise. Absolutely.

There are a number of "bark abatement" tactics-- exercise, training, screens/drapes/fences that block the dog's view, etc., and plenty of businesses offering remedies for barking. We encourage dog owners to exhaust all options before considering bark softening.

Bark softening is an unusual procedure -- a last resort when everything else fails. A brisk morning walk will not necessarily prevent a dedicated barker from wanting to bark all afternoon.

DFNY believes that responsible dog owners should have a full range of lawful and humane options available to them in these situations.

A humane and minor procedure done by a licensed veterinarian is a far better choice than forcing a distraught family to surrender a cherished but noisy pet to a shelter.

bealsie2 said...

It must be nice to be so secure in the knowledge that your way is the right way. What would you suggest for the owner who does not have access to a dog-walker such as yourself? Or chooses not to use one (my one and only experience with a dog walker was not exactly positive – luckily, and no thanks to the dog walker, my dog survived it). What would you suggest for the owner when the dog walker is not there? What makes you think this generic owner you are so quick to castigate has not tried many alternatives?

The implication in your post is that this is the first resort of lazy, uncaring people. I think you should do some research into that before you form an opinion. One of the arguments used by proponents of this legislation is that in areas where similar laws are in place the incidence of shelter turn-ins has not increased, their implication being that those who would like to allow owners to retain the right to choose for their animals use specious arguments. But this is a specious argument in itself. The number of these procedures performed on a yearly basis is very low. So low that if all the dogs who would have been bark-softened are instead turned in to shelters (not a necessarily valid assumption to begin with) these turn-ins would not cause a statistically significant blip in the data. But as a person who truly cares about animals and their human families and who thinks that everyone who wants a pet and can and will care for it in a loving home deserves the right to have that pet, I think even one animal turned in to a shelter when the availability of a simple, relatively painless procedure will let it stay in that home is one too many.

To say that a tired dog is a good dog is rather simplistic. What advice do you give to the apartment dwelling owner of a dog with extreme thunder phobia? Tiring him out before a thunderstorm is not going to quiet the barking and howling echoing throughout the neighbors’ apartments. Do you have a 100% effective cure for thunder phobia? How about for separation anxiety? How about for the dog who just takes pleasure in announcing to all that another leaf just fell off the tree outside the window?

To say that someone who chooses a bark-softening procedure for their dog is choosing an easy fix and is not fulfilling the dog's natural basic needs is a cruel statement, especially since it seems your only advice is to take the dog for a walk.

Adirondog said...

"A tired dog is a good dog" is an easy way to tell people to exercise their dogs, and while it is necessary; there are breeds out there that were specifically bred to bark. For those of us that breed these dogs are we no longer allowed to have them? What is to become of these breeds? Should we allow them to become extinct because one of the many reasons they were bred for are no longer necessary?

Even if you do not agree that dog's should be debarked what of the government imposing restrictions on personal property. Yes dogs are living creatures but they are classified as personal property. This would open the door to breed restrictions based on barking, then breed restrictions on 'viciousness' Should New York state no longer allow Pit Bulls, Rottweilers, Dobermans or German Shepherds because they could possibly be used as attack dogs. What about other breeds that are schutzhund trained dogs. They could push it to no longer allow schutzhund trained dogs. Then requiring only certain types of training. One style of training may work for most dogs, but as a dog trainer, I can guarantee that it doesn't work for ALL dogs, or their people.

I love my dogs and while they are not debarked I do not want the state telling me what I can and cannot do with my dogs. There are MANY organizations that do not like laws prohibiting debarking. The ASPCA, the AVMA, the AAHA, the AKC.

I am the President of the Eastern New York Shetland Sheepdog Club, and we are not members of the DFNY(yet) but I whole heartedly support DFNYs efforts. I've signed a petition on this topic at a local dog show as well as sent for information requests from the ASPCA, AAHA, AVMA, and AKC. I will fight this bill tooth and nail. It is not for the government to dictate to us what we are allowed to do with our pets. They just passed the budget, perhaps they should be concentrating on balancing that instead of imposing restrictions on people and their pets.

Adirondog said...

It is not for the government to dictate what we are and are not allowed to do with our dogs, which are classified as personal property.

There are reasons that dogs need to be debarked and it should not be up to the state to determine it.

The ASPCA, AAHA, AVMA, and AKC all state that laws prohibiting debarking should not be passed.

I am the President of the Eastern New York Shetland Sheepdog Club, and while we are not a member of DFNY(yet) we support their efforts.

I personally will be contacting every Legislative representative in this area on behalf of our club discouraging them from passing this bill.

EllenG said...

Dogs do not sit in their natural habitat and bark all day - that is an unnatural behavior, first and foremost. There are several things you can do in ADDITION to a brisk walk and exercise to make sure that your companion is good for the day ahead. Contact a professional for tips and read blogs like Rachel Baum's on the Times Union: Bark, Confessions of a Dog Trainer.

As for you, dear bealsie2, just because you had a bad experience with one doctor or vet, does that mean you never go for health care for you or your dog ever again? Try a referred, recommended and insured professional - I am truly sorry that you had a bad experience, but we have that with so-called breeders now, too, don't we?

Most people (not all) I see that do not walk their dogs have no legitimate reason other than they just don't do it. For others who cannot, I try to help walk their dogs at NO cost to them because it benefits the dog. If you've tried "many" things, then either you're not following through (time, patience and repetitions) or you're not trying the right things.

You have to work out phobias, and there's no time limit on that because again, it's not an easy fix and one you have to repeat or create a den for them in which to retreat. Is the human afraid of the storms??? Did you make a big deal out of leaving? None of these are natural behaviors and 99% of the time caused by the humans.

Dogs that are bred to bark...like your working sheltie dogs on a farm??? They don't bark all day, either, only when they are working and herding. I guess that's not a dog to have in an apartment complex or residential neighborhood unless properly exercised daily, and you should not be placing your dogs in such areas but appeal to people who still use them or can fulfill their high-energy needs - if they're no longer necessary in daily lives, then I guess maybe the breed will eventually be phased out. Why be bred and placed only to have debarking surgery? Kind of a no-brainer. It also speaks volumes for doing research prior to getting a dog. Adopt a quiet soul from a shelter or humane society. He/she will love you to death.

I hear more excuses to have the surgery (easier) than willingness to work at fulfilling your dogs' needs (harder but much more rewarding).

PS - I don't see where the ASPCA promotes this surgery except that it is to be done by a vet in PA to stop crazy Amish puppy mill owners from performing these surgeries in their barns along with C-sections, docking, and euthanasia.

bealsie2 said...
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bealsie2 said...
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bealsie2 said...

Well, let’s try this point by point.

Dogs do not sit in their natural habitat and bark all day - that is an unnatural behavior, first and foremost.
Just exactly what is a dog’s “natural habitat”? Dogs and humans have spent the last 12,000+ years co-evolving. So a dog sitting in a human habitation of some sort should be considered to be in its natural habitat at least as much as a human sitting in a human habitation would be considered to be in his or her natural habitat. Perhaps it is an unnatural behavior, but I doubt it and I would like to see a reference other than your personal opinion that this is so.

There are several things you can do in ADDITION to a brisk walk and exercise to make sure that your companion is good for the day ahead. Contact a professional for tips and read blogs like Rachel Baum's on the Times Union: Bark, Confessions of a Dog Trainer.
Ah, training – what a novel concept! Do you mean to imply, in contrast to your original post, that a brisk walk may not solve all issues? What is a dog-walker to do!? I had never read Rachel Baum’s blog. Thanks for the reference – it looks cute. I did not see anything in it though, in my admittedly quick perusal, that would impact the problems facing the owner of a dedicated barker.

bealsie2 said...

Part II

Try a referred, recommended and insured professional - I am truly sorry that you had a bad experience, but we have that with so-called breeders now, too, don't we?
Pull your skirt down honey, your slip is showing. “So-called breeders” was thrown in only to jab at those who had the temerity to disagree with you.

Most people (not all) I see that do not walk their dogs have no legitimate reason other than they just don't do it.
I think I can quite honestly say that I don’t think I like you. I tend to be judgmental, but I recognize it as a fault and I try very hard to overcome it. You seem to feel it a virtue. It certainly comes through loud and clear in your writing.

For others who cannot, I try to help walk their dogs at NO cost to them because it benefits the dog. If you've tried "many" things, then either you're not following through (time, patience and repetitions) or you're not trying the right things.
That’s very kind of you. And I do not mean that in a sarcastic manner. But then you go with the judgmental thing again. How many dedicated barkers have you cured in your obviously vast experience? What were the techniques you used? Have you given the benefit of your expertise to the people whose dogs you so kindly walk for free? As a trainer, I can recommend websites with actual training suggestions which might help.

bealsie2 said...

Part III (slightly out of order


As for you, dear bealsie2, just because you had a bad experience with one doctor or vet, does that mean you never go for health care for you or your dog ever again?
If you re-read my original post, you will note that I did not have a bad experience with a doctor or vet, I had it with a dog-walker – one of those people who in your original post you characterized as the only help required for a dedicated barker. And yes, in the interests of my own peace of mind, I have never used a dog walker again.

bealsie2 said...

Part IV

You have to work out phobias, and there's no time limit on that because again, it's not an easy fix and one you have to repeat or create a den for them in which to retreat. Is the human afraid of the storms??? Did you make a big deal out of leaving? None of these are natural behaviors and 99% of the time caused by the humans.
If you’re going to throw out statistics, I would like some references to support what is apparently your opinion. How much experience do you have dealing with “phobias”? And what is your basis for saying these are not “natural behaviors”? And which, specifically are not natural? There is currently a research study underway at the University of Pennsylvania looking into the genetic basis for noise phobia and noise reactivity. Do you mean to imply that this study is a waste of time and all issues of this sort are caused by bad owners? Of course, the “so-called breeders” mentioned above must be sending in samples and cohort data for some ulterior motive of their own unrelated to the health and quality of life of their dogs.

Dogs that are bred to bark...like your working sheltie dogs on a farm??? They don't bark all day, either, only when they are working and herding.
“”Bred to bark”? I’m sorry, but what planet are you from? Who said they bark all day? And if you knew anything about working or herding dogs, you would know that the vast majority bark when necessary and otherwise work silently.

bealsie2 said...

Part V

I guess that's not a dog to have in an apartment complex or residential neighborhood unless properly exercised daily, and you should not be placing your dogs in such areas but appeal to people who still use them or can fulfill their high-energy needs - if they're no longer necessary in daily lives, then I guess maybe the breed will eventually be phased out. Why be bred and placed only to have debarking surgery? Kind of a no-brainer. It also speaks volumes for doing research prior to getting a dog. Adopt a quiet soul from a shelter or humane society. He/she will love you to death.
There is just too much in the above to even respond to. Your biases are in full flower – a lovely crop, and well-fertilized too I might add.

I hear more excuses to have the surgery (easier) than willingness to work at fulfilling your dogs' needs (harder but much more rewarding).
You obviously either did not read or chose not to comprehend either the responses to your previous post or the analysis of the proposed law and its ramifications. This surgery is statistically very uncommon. In the city closest to my home there are no veterinarians who perform it. It is not something that the vast majority of owners, even those with problem barkers, even consider. And those who opt for it do not do it lightly.

PS - I don't see where the ASPCA promotes this surgery except that it is to be done by a vet in PA to stop crazy Amish puppy mill owners from performing these surgeries in their barns along with C-sections, docking, and euthanasia.
No one said the ASPCA promotes this surgery. One writer said the ASPCA opposed this bill. Those are hardly the same thing. (I would suggest in your spare time you might consider a logic course at your closest community college – simply for personal growth of course.) “Crazy Amish puppy mill owners” huh? Firstly, where is your data that they do these things? And secondly, you might want to watch your tongue. To me, that phrase verges on hate speech.